Am I Wrong? or Was this "Trulia Voices" Exchange "Crossing an Ethical Line"?
Ok, first off, if I am wrong I will write a letter of apology to all person’s involved in this. But, I came across, an all to familiar, exchange on Trulia Voices today. Granted, I AM NOT A PRACTICING REALTOR (though I do hold a license to do so). I work with Realtors, assisting them on their journey into the RENet, so you can tell me to “Screw Off” here if you want 🙂
I have known hundreds, if not thousands, of Realtors and Brokers as well as RENet professionals over the years. Some, I am proud to say, are now my friends. I take the profession seriously, and as someone who is constantly reading posts and stories on the Internet, I have been saddened by the recent onslaught of negative perceptions of what these people do, and how they affect the home buying transactions. So many times they are being labeled as “Unethical”, or “Piranhas”, and I may have over reacted to this simple exchange on Trulia, but maybe not???
You be the Judge….
Question – ”
what should I offer for 21861 Palamca, MV. Thank you
That’s it! I did not change it at all, so you get the feel that this is suspect from the start…
Answer #1 – Hi XXXX,
It’s really hard for an agent to suggest an offer price without ever actually being there to view the home and to see the type of condition the property is in. There are many factors that can go into offering a final purchase price, and some of the factors include actually being there to see the property itself. Are you working with an agent/realtor right now? If you do not have representation I highly suggest you hire a professional realtor that can help walk you through the whole process.
If you have any other questions please feel free to ask
This Guy, did the best. Actually asking in his reply, if they are working with a Realtor, though he does start to give some advise, I thought this was ok, and I was probably too tough on him in my comment,but wait…
Answer #2 – As XXXXX said below, unless we see the property and the condition of it, we can’t tell you what to offer. I will tell you it most likely will go over the asking price. That area doesn’t have anything else less than $600,000. I’d be glad to check it out for you just let me know, I live very close to where those homes are.
Nothing! nothing about working with someone??? (PS – This was a Broker)
Answer #3 – It will probably have multiple offers and end up selling for at least $25k more than it’s listed for. I hope that helps. Let me know if you’d like an experienced South County Realtor to assist you in your quest to acquire a home.
Seeing a pattern here???
Answer #4 – This is a short sale, great location, nice floorplan, needs clean up and permit work on deck on master balcony, new carpet & paint. Lender is Indy Mac and it was scheduled for trustees sale, which has been postponed. Key is having an agent with a strong track record with short sales and writing a strong, clean offer. I can help you if you need help….let me know.
Am I crazy? or is this wrong? BTW – This Agent was a Trulia “VIP” and a Trulia “Pro”
Ok, so here was my comment – (I may have been under the influence of recent posts I had read)
While I love Trulia Voices, as well as Zillow Answers, for the role it plays in educating the consumer, it is questions like this one that make me “cringe” a bit…the Real Estate profession continues to come “under fire” for a perceived “lack of ethics” by the consumer, and though XXXX came close to asking, no one actually checked to be sure this consumer was not currently in contract with a Realtor? Many who read this will get the impression that our industry is “dog eat dog” or “cut-throat”, devoid of ethics and standards as we compete for a client. While I find it, overall, quite the opposite. The Agents and Brokers I have met are true professionals, active in their communities, and share openly their knowledge and expertise with others in the profession.
I’m not saying the consumer, XXXX, nor the 4 Realtors whom answered before me, did anything wrong. I am saying that it could be perceived that way, and it would take away from the fact that our industry is proud of it’s ethics and standards.
So the question is…Was I way off base, or was this an opportunity for the industry to add to it’s “Black eye”?
I always respect the comments from our GEB readers, and will promise to take to heart any constructive criticism regarding this post. I said what I said, because I care about this industry, and the fine people who work in it…
Stay Blogging My Friends!
@TheRECoach
Laurent
Posted at 14:54h, 13 AprilThe guy seemed clueless, the agents offered to represent him. Nothing leads me to believe he has an agent. If anything it sounds like he doesn't have one and could use the help.
I'm not sure why this is a big deal at all. Did I miss something?
You're Fired!
Posted at 15:43h, 13 AprilOne of the Trulia community guidelines is to be concise and avoid redundancy. If it's been said…stop! Have a new take…present.
Each respondant did add more information. Each advised seeking information from a professional. The submitter of the question now has information and the right to choose the next step. That step may involve the assistance from a real estate professional demonstrating the knowledge and skills needed. This code of ethics, if I'm analyzing your take, must involve preventing a citizen from firing their existing agent. Prohibiting dialog with other professionals. This code of ethics of which you perfer does not seem to serve the best interest of the citizen. What's up with that?
therecoach
Posted at 16:20h, 13 AprilWow! Maybe your name should be “You're Fired Up”! I appreciate your take on this, I would ask the same question as I asked Laurent above, Should the question be asked first, before asking to represent them? BTW – you stated you read that they asked, but only answer #1 did, the other 3 neglected to. Not saying they should be “prohibited”, easy on the “civil rights” beat down, I think everyone should have the right to choose, I am wondering if there is a “line” being crossed…for example, when you are out “clubbing” and you meet someone, shouldn't you ask if they are married, before you ask them on a date? “Respect”
therecoach
Posted at 16:16h, 13 AprilBut should they have asked that question? (other than answer #1) Is that the right thing to do? BTW – “clueless” may be a bit too strong
Laurent
Posted at 18:36h, 13 AprilIf you want to play 100% by the rule, they probably should have asked if he was already working with an agent. But that means realtors should start every real estate conversation with some kind of disclaimer.
To be honest I'm a little over that whole “If you're already working with a real estate agent please ignore this” catch line on everything.
I don't encourage agents to steal clients from their peers but in this case nothing really leads to believe that he already had an agent.
To me it really comes down to one thing : if you provide good service, people will tend to be loyal. If you provide crappy service they will look elsewhere no matter what the fine print says.If you want to play 100% by the rule, they probably should have asked. That also means realtors should start every conversation with some kind of disclaimer. Better get some t-shirts printed.
I'm over that whole “If you're already working with a real estate agent please ignore this” catch line on everything.
To me it really comes down to one thing : if you provide good service, people will tend to be loyal. If you provide crappy service they will look elsewhere no matter what the fine print says.
I don't encourage agents to steal clients from others but it didn't seem like this was the case here.
Laurent
Posted at 18:38h, 13 AprilI'm not sure what happened here, but please delete this one!
Laurent
Posted at 18:37h, 13 AprilIf you want to play 100% by the rule, they probably should have asked. That also means realtors should start every conversation with some kind of disclaimer. Better get some t-shirts printed.
I'm over that whole “If you're already working with a real estate agent please ignore this” catch line on everything.
To me it really comes down to one thing : if you provide good service, people will tend to be loyal. If you provide crappy service they will look elsewhere no matter what the fine print says.
I don't encourage agents to steal clients from others but it didn't seem like this was the case here.
therecoach
Posted at 13:20h, 14 AprilI see your point about a “Disclaimer” of sorts Laurent. In this case, does the “ubiquitous” nature of the question come into play? Did it indicate to you that the consumer was “fishing” at all?
Dave
Posted at 22:19h, 13 AprilLaurent,
The point of Trulia Voices is for consumers to ask questions that realtors answer. If every answer must be phrased in the “are you working with an agent…” no one would respond.
The question is asked and if it is answered adequately, the consumer can contact the agent for further dialogue. It's not like the agents are then spamming the consumer to work with them… the question is asked and answered. What's the big deal.
Laurent
Posted at 06:36h, 14 AprilDave, this is what I'm saying. I think. I don't think any of the agents really crossed the line here. Some had more class than others but that's about it.
therecoach
Posted at 13:22h, 14 AprilThanks Dave, did you feel at all that these particular answers were leading the consumer towards, a possible “replacement” of existing representation?
Sam DeBord, SeattleHome.com
Posted at 08:00h, 14 AprilThe question was generic, a response about agency was asked right away, every responder doesn't need to repeat it.
It's a public discussion, initiated by the buyer, so it's open to all answers. These public forums would be just long pages of repeated CYA questions and disclaimers if we followed your line of thinking.
therecoach
Posted at 13:24h, 14 AprilThanks Sam, is there a “middle ground”? Can we some how appear to the consumers that we are one big “happy family”, without bogging down the system with “noisy” disclaimers?
Sam DeBord, SeattleHome.com
Posted at 09:02h, 15 AprilIt would be nice if most of the agents didn't aggressively solicit business, but there's nothing unethical about it, it just looks desperate sometimes. I think you're looking more at an issue a professional image vs. ethics violations.
therecoach
Posted at 15:37h, 15 AprilSam, I think you may be on to something, perhaps my interpretation of this being “unethical”, was really as you said a “professional image” issue…great response, thanks for the food for thought 🙂
joespake
Posted at 08:51h, 14 AprilOff the thread a bit. Pirhanas…interesting metaphor. I have almost stopped responding on Trulia voices, because of the aggressive way the responders pursue the questioner and attack each other. A large part of the bad rep realtors get is due to their predatory behavior and pushy techniques. Are we so hungry that we cannot act with some civility?
I don't feel ethically bound to determine someone is working with another realtor in a forum like Trulia voices – I see the format as questions thrown out for general response and discussion. If the person contacted me directly, or even engaged with me in a response to my answer, then I would ask.
therecoach
Posted at 13:18h, 14 AprilWell said Joe, a good “middle ground” solution. 🙂
bonnebaker
Posted at 18:21h, 15 AprilYes, Piranhas. I do see this attitude infiltrating. It makes me cringe, because some agents do become so pushy. Perhaps I would sell more if I did that, but I think I would have a difficult time looking in the mirror at all of that desperation. Ultimately I think the good Realtors that are not pushy and show their professionalism will more likely be the ones with the long, successful careers. It is all about attitude.
joespake
Posted at 18:36h, 15 AprilWell put. I totally agree.
therecoach
Posted at 13:48h, 16 AprilSo, if I am reading your comment right, you are kinda of on the same plain as Sam DeBord in his comment above? (More of “Professionalism” issue)
bonnebaker
Posted at 14:15h, 16 AprilYes, somewhat, but I looked more to what Joe was saying about the agressiveness and how much of a turn off it is with sales. Someone that is that agressive may win in the short run, but not the long run.
I will give you an example. I went to the BMW dealership becasue I am thinking about a new car. The salesman was as nice as pie, joked with me, gave me plenty of information, and showed me a couple of models that I was interested in. There was no hard sales job. I am still thinking about this guy and feel compelled to call him specifically when that new 500 series comes out.
Then off to the ford dealer for to look at trucks for my other half…The salesman was nice and informative, but he did not want me to leave without buying. These are old sales techniques and they do not work with me. I have the salesman's card, but I feel much less inclined to contact him when ready to purchase (although I probably will) than the salesman at the BMW dealership.
laishacollins
Posted at 23:57h, 14 AprilI was just passing by your site and read this article. I must say it was really honest article. I don't think you need to apologies at all because you have just shown an honest point view and not been politically correct. I really liked your this quality.
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therecoach
Posted at 13:50h, 16 AprilAw Shucks Iaisha…You're makin me “blush” … Thanks for stopping by! 😉
Danny
Posted at 17:51h, 15 AprilI think the question of working with an agent was already established, it just would have been redundant for each agent to ask, I do think the agents might have been aggressive. I do think if the client likes your answer they may seek you out and will keep yourself from looking desperate.
therecoach
Posted at 13:51h, 16 AprilI like your “take” Danny, I think it's kind of the common theme amongst these responses…Thanks for reading 🙂
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Posted at 11:24h, 16 April[…] Am I Wrong? or Was this “Trulia Voices” Exchange “Crossing an Ethical Line”? [Geek Estate] […]
John Lynch
Posted at 19:12h, 18 AprilA consumer has the right to ask for advice. The buyer may or may not have an agent. That does not prevent them from seeking advice from someone else or from an online forum. People who are not licensed also are able to comment too.
I think if more agents focused on answering the questions and not how to spin the comments into a “call me I can help” statement the perception of Realtors would improve. They would not look desperate and look to be more community oriented.
A buyer in fact can certainty collect information from multiple agents. In fact what prevents an agent from giving advice? It is just that those agents might end up giving advice for free. The question, “are you working with an agent” comes down to ethics of not interfering with an agents relationship with their client and procuring cause. The consumer has a choice, I have seen plenty sell their home with one agent, and buy with different agent. Ultimately when we are talking about not interfering with another agent we are talking about who is entitled to the commission. So, by right these agents are providing free advice and are being free with their thoughts.
If the agent is providing advice on an open forum are they really interfering with the buyers relationship with their agent? I don't think so. If that same poster calls an agent or visits them at their office… then the situation is at the next level and the agent now should confirm if that buyer is in a contractual relationship with a buyers agent.
therecoach
Posted at 13:36h, 19 AprilWell thought out take on the subject, thanks John 🙂
Greg Fleischaker
Posted at 20:10h, 18 AprilI feel that many of the online discussion boards at the “big time” sites are way too pushy and uncomfortable for me. I much prefer a site along these lines, with calm rationale discussion, which is why I stay away from posting, or replying on Trulia, and other such sites.
therecoach
Posted at 13:38h, 19 AprilHi Greg, sites like Trulia Voices are providing a valuable resource for Consumers and Agents alike, I don't won't you to shy away from them. I think your approach, based on your comment, will be to stay “professional” and provide good content and that is always welcome, on this site, Trulia, and all the rest! 🙂
thanks for the read
Paul Mobley
Posted at 12:04h, 21 AprilThe reason that agents and brokers participate in Trulia Voices is to generate leads and increase their reputation. So that type of response is appropriate in the venue and based on the question provided. Yet, the problem that I have is that no one did a great job answering the question. Answer #4 talked some about the specifics of the property and some minor expected expenses but didn't say anything about an opinion of value.
Wouldn't it have been nice if someone said something about specific comparables? Or about rental income and cap rates? Also, don't the type of financing and timeline matter? An all cash deal with a 15 day close vs. a VA or FHA max loan and 60 day escrow are very different and would impact the offer. Answer the question people!
An ideal answer for me would be something like:
Current market trends and a review of five similar properties that sold in the last six months suggest that this property is worth between $550k and $575k. Several factors that determine where in this range to make your initial offer would be: (a) if there are multiple bidders; (b) the escrow term; (c) the type of financing and down payment that you propose; (d) your credit score(s); and (e) additional information gathered for a more detailed analysis
The person who proposed the question might not be an idiot. They may just be trying to see if anyone can answer a simple question that would have to be repeated multiple times in the buying process. Like a tryout. It doesn't take that long to answer the question right and you don't even need to visit the property if you give a range and cite your assumptions.
If it's worth your time to generate leads using Trulia Voices then spend the time to do it right. Even if this person already had representation and was seeking a second opinion there are many other people read the Q&A and need the services of a true professional.
therecoach
Posted at 09:45h, 22 AprilSpoken like a true “professional”…Thanks Paul!
Denise Hamlin
Posted at 09:43h, 26 AprilI'm late to the party here, but figure I'll add my 2 cents anyway…. I think from the comments you have the answer to the ethical question you asked in your post. That being said and ethics aside, the answers were definitely tacky. We're professionals, but you'd never know it from any of these answers.
Plus, how about answering the question? No-one really did that. The best answer is right here in your comments. (I'm referring to comment made by Paul Mobley below).
I also agree with Malia. The days of hard selling techniques are over. Pity these guys didn't get the memo about that. What's particularly sad is that examples like these reflect back on all of us and contributes to the poor opinion the consumer has about us.
Denise
Denise Hamlin
Posted at 16:43h, 26 AprilI'm late to the party here, but figure I'll add my 2 cents anyway…. I think from the comments you have the answer to the ethical question you asked in your post. That being said and ethics aside, the answers were definitely tacky. We're professionals, but you'd never know it from any of these answers.
Plus, how about answering the question? No-one really did that. The best answer is right here in your comments. (I'm referring to comment made by Paul Mobley below).
I also agree with Malia. The days of hard selling techniques are over. Pity these guys didn't get the memo about that. What's particularly sad is that examples like these reflect back on all of us and contributes to the poor opinion the consumer has about us.
Denise